Cap. VII: Resp. 3 — Apostolic wisdom, not prescribed formulas; Pelagius objection
Response 3. It seems scarcely bearable that it is said: if Paul had wished to teach imputation, he ought rather to have said in whichhichhich than on whichichich. For who are we who dare prescribe to the Apostle a manner of speaking and formulas — especially when in and on so frequently have the same sense and signification? Gently, I ask: without doubt the author of that reason recoils vehemently from arrogance of this kindindind. He does not prescribe to the Apostle a manner of speaking and formulas; he draws an argument from his wisdom and prudence, which is established to have been the highest. It was asked what the Apostle wished to signify by the words on whichichich πάντες ἥμαρτον (Romans 5:12). Some say he wished to signify that Adam's first actual sin was imputed to all men, and that immediately. Since therefore they attribute this mind to the Apostle — I will not say they prescribe it, but because it so pleases them — and toward that mind they bend a little his words, less accommodating as they are, affirming that on is put for in with no reason given.e objects that this less befits Apostolic wisdom. For since a doctrine of this kind is very hard, and abhorrent from common sense, and is not taught elsewhere in Scripture, it was fitting that at least in this one place it be taught openly and in express words — or at least in those words which, though falsely, are nevertheless held as express by those who dissent from us in this cause. If at least he had said in whichhichhich, there would have been no need to recur to an enallage of the preposition ἐπί put for ἐν, and the signification of the words in whichhichhich would have been less ambiguous: for much more rarely than on whichichich do they signify "in that," "inasmuch as," and so on. Since therefore the Apostle deliberately preferred to say on whichichich rather than in whichhichhich, and as much as could be done removed them from those antecedents, and by several things interposed separated the noun ἀνθρώπου, and so hindered the relative ᾧ from being referred to it as antecedent — why without necessity, without reason, do we prefer to force some violence upon his words and upon the collocation of the words, so that they seem somehow to say what cannot be gathered from them, rather than, retaining the propriety of the words on whichichich and the Apostolic situ of the clauses, admit that sense of his words which in itself no one but a Pelagian can deny to be true? But what, he says, will hinder Pelagius or Socinus from objecting by the same reason: if Scripture had wished to teach either that sin is propagated by generation, or that Christ is Mediator by merit and satisfaction, it would have expressed it, or ought to have expressed it, in clear and perspicuous words, since the matter is hard and not enough accommodated to the common sense of men? Altogether nothing will hinder the followers of Pelagius and Socinus from being able to object this if they wish; but nothing will hinder us either from answering those who object — not what D. Garissoles wants, that it is not ours to prescribe to God manners and modes of speaking (for this, when God's mind and sentence is turned in the question, can seem sophistic); but what the fact is: that it neither abhors in any way from the sense of conscience, and is expressed in Scripture in words so express and clear that, unless great force is brought upon them, they cannot be twisted into another sense.
Latin
Resp. 3. vix ferendum videri, quod dicitur, si Paulus imputationem docere voluisset, debuisse potius ἐν ᾧ dicere quam ἐφ᾽ ᾧ. Qui enim nos sumus, qui Apostolo praescribere audeamus loquendi rationem, et formulas, praesertim cum ἐν et ἐπί tam frequenter eundem sensum et significationem habeant? Clementer quaeso: abhorret enim sine dubio vehementer ab hujusmodi arrogantia rationis illius autor. Non praescribit Apostolo loquendi rationem et formulas, sed ab ejus sapientia et prudentia, quam summam fuisse constat, ducit argumentum. Quaerebatur quid Apostolus significare voluit verbis ἐφ᾽ ᾧ πάντες ἥμαρτον? Aiunt quidam eum significare voluisse, primum Adami peccatum actuale omnibus hominibus imputatum fuisse, et quidem immediate. Quoniam ergo hanc mentem Apostolo, non dicam praescribunt, sed tamen, quia ita ipsis placet, tribuunt; atque ad eam mentem verba ejus minus accommodata paululum inflectunt, ἐπί pro ἐν positum nulla reddita ratione, affirmantes. Ille objicit, hoc sapientiae Apostolicae minus convenire. Cum enim ejusmodi doctrina sit admodum ardua, et a sensu communi abhorrens, et alibi non doceatur in Scriptura, consentaneum erat, ut saltem hoc uno in loco doceretur aperte, et verbis disertis, aut saltem iis, quae falso quidem, sed tamen pro disertis ab iis habentur qui a nobis in hac causa dissentiunt. Si saltem dixisset ἐν ᾧ, non fuisset opus recurrere ad enallagem praepositionis ἐπί positae pro ἐν, et minus fuisset ambigua vocum ἐν ᾧ significatio: multo enim rarius, quam ἐφ᾽ ᾧ, significant eo quod, quatenus &c. Cum ergo Apostolus consulto dicere maluerit ἐφ᾽ ᾧ quam ἐν ᾧ, ac, quantum fieri potuit, ab illis removerit, et pluribus interpositis separaverit nomen ἀνθρώπου; atque ita impediverit ne ad id tanquam antecedens relativum ᾧ referretur, cur sine necessitate, sine ratione, malumus eius verbis et verborum collocationi vim aliquam inferre, ut id dicere aliquomodo videantur quod ex eis colligi nequit, quam retenta verborum ἐφ᾽ ᾧ proprietate, et Apostolico commatum situ eam sententiam verborum eius admittere, quam in se veram esse nemo non Pelagianus negare potest? Sed quid, inquit, impediet, quominus Pelagius aut Socinus eadem ratione objicere possint; Si Scriptura docere voluisset, vel peccatum generatione propagari, vel Christum esse Mediatorem merito et satisfactione; id expressuram fuisse, vel exprimere debuisse verbis claris et perspicuis, cum res sit ardua, nec satis ad communem hominum sensum accommodata? Omnino nihil impediet quominus hoc possint objicere, si velint, Pelagii et Socini sequaces; Sed nihil impediet etiam, quominus objicientibus respondeamus, non id quod vult D. G. nostrum non esse, Deo loquendi rationes et modos praescribere: Hoc enim, cum Dei mens et sententia versatur in quaestione, sophisticum videri possit; Sed quod res est, id neque a sensu conscientiae ullo modo abhorrere, et tam disertis ac claris verbis in Scriptura exprimi, ut, nisi iis magna vis afferatur, in alium sensum detorqueri nequeant.
About this text
New English, free to read. Open any section below.
English follows the locked 1661 Saumur Latin of Capita I–XIV partial through Man. Post. No modern English was copied. Cap. IX deepen+ remain.
Catalogue & scope
IA deimputationepri00lapl. Densify: Capita I–XII + Caput XIV + Man. Post. Cap. II–VI through Cap. X Rom. 5:14 tip. Not whole Disputatio; Cap. X Rom. 5:14+ / ~494 pp Disputatio remain.
Witnesses
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput Primum tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Checked print IA Text PDF tip-page extract of Caput Primum (Latin)
- Checked print IA DjVu OCR of the 1661 volume (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput II probable arguments I–VII (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput III necessary arguments (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput IV tip through Garissoles distinction (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput IV remainder through Drelincourt (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput V Distributio + Caput VI tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VI remainder Maresius args I–VIII (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VII tip Garissoles through Rivetus (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VII rest after Rivetus tip through Garissoles consequent confession (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VII §.6 causes-argument through Sed pergamus (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VII Denique / σκοπῷ–verbis tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VII Accedamus ἐφ᾽ ᾧ / aorist / lexicography tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VII Ad alias rationes Prima–Tertia tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VII Praeter aberrationem through Christ–Adam close (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VII Quarta ratio through Sed pergamus (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VII Quinta & ultima ratio through p.70 return (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VIII opening through Rom. 5:15 gift reductio (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VIII Calvin p.20 through hereditary-corruption close (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VIII Ex vs.16 through Chamier disertius close (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VIII IV Ex vs.17 through V Ex vs.18 Pelagius dilemma close (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VIII VI Ex vs.19 through Chamier/Martyr close before Caput IX (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput IX opening through roses reductio before Responsio secunda (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput IX Responsio 2 through Melchizedek close (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput X opening through Garissoles first ratio before alteram (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput X Theologorum auxilium through Bellarmine retorsion before Christi justitia (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput X Superest ultima through Placeus reply before Caput XI (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput XI Pelagian/Socinian/Remonstrant alienation before Caput XII (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput XII Daubuz antecedent/immediate open before v.19 (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput XII Tranfit vers. XIX Rom 5:19 / Chamier / Blancus before Cap. XIV (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput XIV Nullam extare / Manuscriptum posterius Cap. I before Cap. II (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. II §XIV Garissoles primi peccati naming / Placeus bile reply before duplex question (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. II Status Questionis before §III (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. II §III Garissoles fourfold / actualis (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. II duplex Immediata/Mediata before §XIX (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. II §XIX Tum in nomine before Deinde habitus (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. II GAR Deinde habitus before Posterior quaestio (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. II Posterior quaestio de poena before Cap. III (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. III Observata quaedam before Cap. IV (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IV Rursus observata through Prima ratio (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IV GAR Cameron–Amyraut vita promissa (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IV GAR Cameron–Amyraut vita promissa (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IV Tertia GAR three rationes (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IV Noli/Quarta/Quinta (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IV GAR 2 Quinta / Sexta tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IV GAR Ultimo / PLAC / GAR 2-4 tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IV GAR Denique / Vir Doctus threefold tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Caput V quid sit imputari tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Caput VI Examen Cap. IV tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI GAR 4 tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI Isaiah 55 / Subjungis tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI Chamier tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI Placeus replies tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI foedus-condition tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI GAR erotema 4 tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI GAR erotema 5 tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI GAR erotema 6 tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI infants/Confessio/Pighius tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI generative-faculty quarrel tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI last-end / pleasure-vs-generation tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI original-stain syllogism tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI poena/permission/natural-propagation tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI judgment-locution tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI Calvin Tertio tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII first courtier similitude tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII separability/judicial tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII penalties/meritorie tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII sons/Deut 24 tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII magist/power-vs-justice tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII second similitude Thomas/body tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII GAR Augustine/representation tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII 3rd similitude King/war tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII God-as-judge/Abraham tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII GAR Ezek 21 / just-with-unjust (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII Quarto/Quinto close (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VIII OT tree interdict open (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VIII Hypognosticon / interdict silence (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VIII sentence / common-penalty (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VIII personal words / quia paruisti (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VIII Gospel promise / seed of woman (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VIII death-reply / Ps 32 (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VIII Abraham / OT close (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX Rom 5:12 open (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX four proofs (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX name-distinctions (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX GAR/Beza (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX GAR Cap. VII § IX (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX GAR Cap. VIII Resp. 1 (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX PLAC vs GAR 3 (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX imputatum-est reductio (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX three senses of imputation (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. X Rom.5.13 open tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
This is an AI-assisted study translation. Source fidelity and completeness have not been independently certified. Open Latin on each section (or the Latin source witness link) for the source text. This is not a complete critical edition.