The distinction between the Spirit's presence and its fullness
And the Holy Spirit, perfect in the perfection of subsistence, proceeding from the Father. [Montanus asks:] How does he enter? He himself says: 'I and the Father are one' (John 10:30). [Origen replies:] He did not say: 'I am one,' but 'we are one,' so that we might know the in-subsistent of the subsistences. And that I marvel at is that you remember the gospels yet fail to walk straight toward their truth.
[Montanus says:] I am persuaded by the gospels. [Origen replies:] Then show, where it is written in the gospels, that: 'I am, and the Father, and the Son, and the Spirit.' [Montanus says:] He who has seen me has seen the Father. [Origen replies:] But the Father: not having said that he himself is the Father, but such as the Father. [Montanus asks:] Do you want to know if those not receiving the Paraclete are orphans? Listen to the Lord saying: 'It is for your benefit that I depart; if I do not depart, the Paraclete will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you; and having come, he will convict the world concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment' (John 14:16-17; 16:8). And after a little he says: 'I will not leave you orphans; I am coming to you' (John 14:18). So those not receiving the Paraclete are orphans.
[Origen replies:] Truly they are not only orphans, but also atheists, those not receiving the Paraclete. [Montanus asks:] Why then do you not receive him? [Origen replies:] We both received and receive, but you neither knew nor received, but were deceived by Montanus, and such a deception, which men would not have been deceived by if they had not become vessels of the devil. For first he persuades you to say that the apostles and the Lord Jesus are liars, the one who said to them: 'I will not leave you orphans; I am coming to you' (John 14:18).
[Montanus says:] For we say that Christ was not among the apostles. [Origen replies:] He who says that the Paraclete was not among the apostles, but in Montanus, will certainly not give Christ to them either. For no one is able to say 'Lord Jesus' (1 Cor 12:3) except in the Holy Spirit. And they were found among you orphans and...
The Lord Jesus Christ is a liar, and Montanus, the priest of Apollo, is truthful. What is more wretched than this deception?
{M.} We also say that the apostles had the Spirit from the Spirit, but they did not have the fullness of the Paraclete. {O.} And he who says, 'But we all reflect the glory of the Lord with an unveiled face' (2 Cor 3:18), did not have the Spirit, but Montanus the priest of the idol? {M.} For was Paul not a persecutor? {O.} But he has become a vessel of election. {M.} And Montanus is also. {O.} But from this the true prophet is known, from him saying the things of God, and the false prophet, from him saying the things opposite to God.
{M.} And when did Montanus say things opposite to God? {O.} When God and our Savior says that the other Paraclete is with himself and promises to send him to the apostles, but Montanus says, 'I am the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,' it is evident that he speaks opposite to the Son and is a false prophet. {M.} And we say that the apostles had the pledge of the Spirit, but not the fullness.
{O.} Because the apostles were temples of the Spirit and all the saints; listen to Paul saying, 'Do you not know that your bodies are a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, and in others? But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you' (1 Cor 6:19-20)? Given so many testimonies saying that the Spirit was and is upon those believing, how do you say it is not upon the apostles? {M.} I said that there was a pledge of the Spirit in them. {O.} That same Spirit is the pledge of the promised good things, such as the promise we have of incorruption. Where is the proof that we shall be incorruptible from the Spirit whom he gave to us, and thus we hope every promise to be fulfilled from the presence of the Holy Spirit, as it is the pledge of the promised good things? He says...
Greek
2 καὶ τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον, τέλειον ἐν τελείᾳ ὑποστάσει, παρὰ τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκπορευόμενον. {Μ.} Πῶς ἐγχωρεῖ; Αὐτὸς λέγει· Ἐγὼ καὶ ὁ πατὴρ ἕν ἐσμεν. {Ο.} Οὐκ εἶπεν· Ἕν εἰμι, ἀλλ' ἕν ἐσμεν, ἵνα τῶν ὑποστάσεων τὸ ἐνυπόστατον γνῶμεν. Ἐκεῖνο δὲ θαυμάζω, ὅτι μέμνησαι τῶν εὐαγγελίων καὶ οὐκ ὀρθοποδεῖς πρὸς τὴν ἀλήθειαν αὐτῶν. {Μ.} Ἐγὼ τοῖς εὐαγγελίοις πείθομαι. {Ο.} ∆εῖξον οὖν, ποῦ γέγραπται ἐν τοῖς εὐαγγελίοις, ὅτι· Ἐγώ εἰμι καὶ ὁ πατὴρ καὶ ὁ υἱὸς καὶ τὸ πνεῦμα. {Μ.} Ὁ ἑωρακὼς ἐμὲ ἑώρακε τὸν πατέρα. {Ο.} Ἀλλὰ τὸν πατέρα· οὐχ ἑαυτὸν φήσας εἶναι πατέρα, ἀλλὰ τοιοῦτον οἷον τὸν πατέρα. {Μ.} Θέλεις γνῶναι, ὅτι ὀρφανοί εἰσιν οἱ μὴ δεχόμενοι τὸν παράκλητον; Ἄκουε τοῦ Κυρίου λέγοντος· Συμφέρει ὑμῖν, ἵνα ἐγὼ ἀπέλθω· ἐὰν μὴ ἀπέλθω, ὁ παράκλητος οὐκ ἐλεύσεται πρὸς ὑμᾶς· ἐὰν δὲ πορευθῶ, πέμψω αὐτὸν πρὸς ὑμᾶς· καὶ ἐλθὼν ἐκεῖνος ἐλέγξει τὸν κόσμον περὶ ἁμαρτίας καὶ περὶ δικαιοσύνης καὶ περὶ κρίσεως. Καὶ μετ' ὀλίγα λέγει· Οὐκ ἀφήσω ὑμᾶς ὀρφανούς· ἔρχομαι πρὸς ὑμᾶς. Οἱ τοίνυν μὴ δεξάμενοι τὸν παράκλητον ὀρφανοί εἰσιν. {Ο.} Ἀληθῶς οὐ μόνον ὀρφανοί εἰσιν, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἄθεοι οἱ μὴ δεξάμενοι τὸν παράκλητον. {Μ.} ∆ιὰ τί οὖν οὐ δέχεσθε αὐτόν; {Ο.} Ἡμεῖς καὶ ἐδεξάμεθα καὶ δεχόμεθα, ὑμεῖς δὲ οὔτε 455 ἔγνωτε οὔτε ἐδέξασθε, ἀλλ' ἠπατήθητε παρὰ Μοντανοῦ, καὶ τοιαύτην ἀπάτην, ἣν οὐκ ἂν ἠπατήθησαν ἄνθρωποι μὴ γενόμενοι σκεύη τοῦ διαβόλου. Πρῶτον γὰρ πείθει ὑμᾶς εἰπεῖν τοὺς ἀποστόλους ὀρφανοὺς καὶ τὸν Κύριον Ἰησοῦν ψεύστην τὸν εἰρηκότα αὐτοῖς· Οὐκ ἀφήσω ὑμᾶς ὀρφανούς· ἔρχομαι πρὸς ὑμᾶς. {Μ.} Ἡμεῖς γὰρ λέγομεν, ὅτι οὐκ ἦν ὁ Χριστὸς ἐν τοῖς ἀποστόλοις. {Ο.} Ὁ λέγων, ὅτι οὐκ ἦν ἐν τοῖς ἀποστόλοις ὁ παράκλητος, ἀλλ' ἐν Μοντανῷ, πάντως οὐδὲ τὸν Χριστὸν δώσει ἐν αὐτοῖς. Οὐδεὶς γὰρ δύναται εἰπεῖν Κύριον Ἰησοῦν, εἰ μὴ ἐν πνεύματι ἁγίῳ. Καὶ εὑρέθησαν καθ' ὑμᾶς ὀρφανοὶ καὶ ὁ Κύριος Ἰησοῦς Χριστὸς ψεύστης, καὶ Μοντανὸς ὁ τοῦ Ἀπόλλωνος ἱερεὺς ἀληθής. Τί δὲ ταύτης τῆς ἀπάτης ἐστὶν ἀθλιώτερον; {Μ.} Λέγομεν καὶ ἡμεῖς, ὅτι οἱ ἀπόστολοι ἔσχον ἐκ τοῦ πνεύματος, ἀλλ' οὐ τὸ πλήρωμα τοῦ παρακλήτου εἶχον. {Ο.} Καὶ ὁ λέγων· Ἡμεῖς δὲ πάντες ἀνακεκαλυμμένῳ προσώπῳ τὴν δόξαν Κυρίου κατοπτριζόμεθα, οὐκ εἶχε τὸ πνεῦμα, ἀλλὰ Μοντανὸς ὁ ἱερεὺς τοῦ εἰδώλου; {Μ.} Παῦλος γὰρ οὐκ ἦν διώκτης; {Ο.} Ἀλλὰ σκεῦος ἐκλογῆς γέγονε. {Μ.} Καὶ Μοντανός. {Ο.} Ἀλλ' ἐκ τούτου γινώσκεται ὁ ἀληθὴς προφήτης ἐκ τοῦ τὰ τοῦ θεοῦ αὐτὸν λέγειν, καὶ ὁ ψευδοπροφήτης ἐν τῷ τὰ ἐναντία αὐτὸν τῷ θεῷ λέγειν. {Μ.} Καὶ πότε Μοντανὸς ἐναντία τῷ θεῷ εἶπεν; {Ο.} Ὅταν μὲν ὁ θεὸς καὶ σωτὴρ ἡμῶν λέγῃ τὸν παράκλητον ἄλλον εἶναι παρ' ἑαυτὸν καὶ τοῖς ἀποστόλοις ἀποστέλλειν αὐτὸν ἐπαγγέλλεται, Μοντανὸς δὲ λέγει· Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ πατὴρ καὶ ὁ υἱὸς καὶ τὸ ἅγιον πνεῦμα, δῆλον, ὅτι ἐναντία τῷ υἱῷ λέγει καὶ ἔστι ψευδοπροφήτης. {Μ.} Καὶ ἡμεῖς λέγομεν, ὅτι εἶχον οἱ ἀπόστολοι τὸν ἀῤῥαβῶνα τοῦ πνεύματος, ἄλλ' οὐ τὸ πλήρωμα. {Ο.} Ὅτι οἱ ἀπόστολοι ναοὶ τοῦ πνεύματος ἦσαν καὶ πάντες οἱ ἅγιοι, ἄκουε Παύλου λέγοντος· Οὐκ οἴδατε, ὅτι τὰ σώματα ὑμῶν ναὸς τοῦ ἐν ὑμῖν ἁγίου πνεύματός ἐστιν καὶ ἐν ἄλλοις· Ὑμεῖς δὲ οὐκ ἐστὲ ἐν σαρκί, 456 ἀλλ' ἐν πνεύματι, εἴπερ πνεῦμα θεοῦ οἰκεῖ ἐν ὑμῖν. Τοσούτων οὖν μαρτυριῶν οὐσῶν τῶν λεγουσῶν, ὅτι τὸ πνεῦμα ἦν καὶ ἔστιν ἐπὶ τοὺς πιστεύοντας, πῶς σὺ λέγεις μὴ εἶναι ἐπὶ τοὺς ἀποστόλους; {Μ.} Εἶπον, ὅτι ἀῤῥαβὼν ἦν τοῦ πνεύματος ἐν αὐτοῖς. {Ο.} Αὐτὸ τὸ πνεῦμα ἀῤῥαβών ἐστι τῶν ἐπηγγελμένων ἀγαθῶν, οἷον ἐπαγγελίαν ἔχομεν ἀφθαρσίας. Πόθεν ἡ ἀπόδειξις, ὅτι ἐσόμεθα ἄφθαρτοι ἐκ τοῦ πνεύματος, οὗ ἔδωκεν ἡμῖν, καὶ οὕτως πᾶσαν ἐπαγγελίαν ἐλπίζομεν πληροῦσθαι ἐκ τῆς τοῦ πνεύματος τοῦ ἁγίου παρουσίας ὡς εἶναι αὐτὸ ἀῤῥαβῶνα τῶν ἐπηγγελμένων ἀγαθῶν; Λέγει δὲ
About this text
A debate with Montanists over their 'new prophecy': true Spirit or fraud?
Catalogue & scope
Khazarzar scan
Witnesses
- Copy-text PG (Khazarzar) (Greek)
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